Why Online Poker Is Not Rigged
July 3rd, 2009
If one had but a penny for every complaint and allegation concerning the supposedly rigged nature of online poker, one would probably be an extremely rich man. The problem is though that if you were to get a penny for every such allegation backed by solid evidence, you probably wouldn’t be able to buy a loaf of bread with it.
Just reading around various poker forums and blogs, you’ll come across countless stories of consecutive bad beats which the author regards as statistically improbable and therefore holds as proof for online poker being rigged.
I admit it: I used to be one of these frustrated players seeking ways to let the world know about my anguish. I used to complain on various forums myself but somehow, after such a spell I would usually calm down and look at things in a different light. I remember back then my main counter argument to considering online card-rooms cheaters was: “at the end of the day, you’re just a nickel-dime, freerolling, low buy-in SNG playing nobody. Who on earth would care to swindle you out of your 10-30 bucks? The sheer effort it would take to cheat me out of my dimes and nickels would probably cost the room much more than they’d ever “steal” from me…”
In time, I climbed up the limits and found other, more logical reasons for doubting my own frustration-fed suspicions. The most often brought up arguments when it comes to “rigged” complaints are linked to bad beats. The truth however is that in poker bad beats happen. Just a few hours ago I had my pocket Qs cracked in a tournament by an opponent’s pocket Jacks for a pre-bubble elimination. Sure, I had the best hand before the flop, and certainly, pocket Queens are going to beat pocket Jacks to the pot most of the time. That however, doesn’t mean that by pitting my QQ against someone’s JJ presents any sort of guarantees towards my winning the hand.
The frustrations and the anger produced by such bad beats have deep psychological roots. We all tend to forget bad beats we pulled on others easily. Whenever we suffer a bad beat though, we feel like something that was rightfully ours was taken away from us. Having been brought up inoculated with the idea that everything is either right or wrong, the feeling of injustice enrages us and eliminates logic from our thinking.
The reality of the situation is, your A,A can lose the 7,2o and sometimes it will too. Over the long-run, it will certainly beat the crap out of the 7,2o, but there are no guarantees that it will over a single match-up.
If the number and the nature of the bad beats you suffer are what push you to proclaim that online poker is rigged, take a look at some of the live hands played at the WSOP for instance. You wouldn’t believe how many runner-runner bad beats there are at the live tables. The fact that one will generally play many more hands per hour at an online table than at a live one may increase the frequency of online bad beats, but if you take a look at an equal number of online and live hands and compare the bad beats that they yield, you’ll probably discover a remarkable similarity, provided the RNG used by the online cardroom is not faulty.
The bottom line is, until someone backs up his/her claims with empiric evidence yielded by consistent hand-histories, thousands and thousands of hands big, in the opinion of this player, online poker cannot be called rigged.
Instead of wasting your time fuming over spilt milk and frustrating yourself over stupid bad beats, why don’t you sign up to a rakeback deal and take some of the rake you pay back from your poker room? Rake rebate deals like the Ultimate Bet rakeback and the PKR poker rakeback offer you a nice rebate and an edge which is extremely easy to secure.
Read More About (Tags): online poke scandal > online poker cheat > poker cheat > poker cheating > rigged poker > ultimate poker cheat > ultimate poker scandal
Entry Filed under:online poker
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25 Comments Add your own
1. Why Online Poker Is Not R&hellip | July 3rd, 2009 at 1:28 am
[...] Hammer Player aka Hoyazo wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptThe bottom line is, until someone backs up his/her claims with empiric evidence yielded by consistent hand-histories, thousands and thousands of hands big, in the opinion of this player, online poker cannot be called rigged. … [...]
2. Why Online Poker Is Not R&hellip | July 3rd, 2009 at 3:23 am
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3. Why Online Poker Is Not R&hellip | July 3rd, 2009 at 4:46 am
[...] Rickey wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptIf one had but a penny for every complaint and allegation concerning the supposedly rigged nature of online poker, one would probably be an extremely rich man. [...]
4. Why Online Poker Is Not R&hellip | July 3rd, 2009 at 5:49 am
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5. Why Online Poker Is Not R&hellip | July 3rd, 2009 at 6:11 am
[...] Originally posted here: Why Online Poker Is Not Rigged | Poker Tips & Strategies [...]
6. Why Online Poker Is Not R&hellip | July 3rd, 2009 at 8:24 am
[...] Read the original post: Why Online Poker Is Not Rigged | Poker Tips & Strategies [...]
7. Keno | July 3rd, 2009 at 7:23 pm
So glad I found your website, excellent information and resources.
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9. roulette wheel | August 12th, 2009 at 7:10 am
with online gambling is the same as real life, you win some you lose some
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11. Dimitri | November 15th, 2009 at 6:21 am
Bullshit. It is rigged. Why do I average $120 a night here in Vegas in casinos playing $1/2 and $2/5 games and lose my ass online? The bad beats online are unreal and happen way too often. The last hand played I raised 4x BB with JJ, another player re-raises and the final player moves all-in. I call the all-in, second player folds and other guys shows JT offsuit. The flop comes TT6…come on…..first of all, no one moves all in with JT offsuit….and then flops 3 of a kind? Bullshit. This kind of crap happens all the time online. It occurs way beyond coincidence. Of course it is in the online site’s interest to rig a site…the rake is nothing. Having their own automated computer player and dealing whatever cards they want to take your stack is much more profitable.
I quit playing online for good.
12. Dimitri | November 15th, 2009 at 6:21 am
Bullshit. It is rigged. Why do I average $120 a night here in Vegas in casinos playing $1/2 and $2/5 games and lose my ass online? The bad beats online are unreal and happen way too often. The last hand played I raised 4x BB with JJ, another player re-raises and the final player moves all-in. I call the all-in, second player folds and other guys shows JT offsuit. The flop comes TT6…come on…..first of all, no one moves all in with JT offsuit….and then flops 3 of a kind? Bullshit. This kind of crap happens all the time online. It occurs way beyond coincidence. Of course it is in the online site’s interest to rig a site…the rake is nothing. Having their own automated computer player and dealing whatever cards they want to take your stack is much more profitable.
I quit playing online for good.
13. St1 | December 27th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
If I were running a poker site and wanted to maximize profitability, I would do the following: 1) Allow new depositors to run well and build a small bank roll. 2) Bust out new players over the course of 2-4 days. 3) See how quickly they re-deposit. 4) If they re-deposit quickly, simply run them through a similar build up/bust out cycle. The gold for an online poker site is a player that re-deposits often. Re-deposits and reloads maximize money in play and profitability. As a backup, I would also have a team of killer bots or in-house players that pull in the top prizes from tournaments, sngs, and big pots from cash games. I guarantee it would not be difficult to rig the gameplay.
14. Kclark | January 22nd, 2010 at 1:45 am
Done…after 6 years…to much “coincedence”/”bad beats”..started with $500 and continued to build up to about 7K..very meticulous about my play….once I won a couple of decent scores…$3000/pokerstars $3rebuy…$2700/pokerstars $5rebuy…etc..my playing style never changed…all of a sudden i can’t even cash in a $10/sng…roll comes down to $800…like i said, very experienced and meticulous, my play never changed and analysed constantly…last straw. sitting 3rd in $5rebuy at pokerstars…start with 4000 people (1st place approx. 10K), down to 80 players…I’m dealt AA and lost to A10off…2 hands later…dealt AA…trip A’s on flop..lose to 4 flush….1 hand later..dealt AA (unbelievable and completely fishy at this point)…all in against k6 off..flop A98, turn 7..river is 10….lose to rediculous str8…so pissed off I develop a spreadsheet and keep track of all AA and KK dealt to me….after one month I have AA 59 times….53 are heads up….I won 4 times……..(wtf)..how is this even possible…email support…they sent standard letter stating AA should win approx 89% of the time…..asked that support look into this (KK was slightly better at 11% win rate)…support decline and asked that I not circulate my hands/spreadsheet as they will “not” provide colaborating hands I have played and thus cannot support my claim…..imagine that…unbelievable response…frustration level getting too high and in danger zone healthwise..I don’t know what the criteria is or the reasoning behind this or who benefits…but sure as !@#$ not fun…so far from realistic poker….please no comments about seeing more hands while online….the percentages take this into account…..good luck all..have fun if possible…unfortunately I am huge fan of game but cannot be involved in this travesty of bullshit anymore………and cannot find a solution or a site that will guarantee proper play…..
15. poker | February 22nd, 2010 at 3:13 am
Great site! I love online
poker and really enjoyed this site. I play online poker at sites like
Full Tilt and I check out the different site rankings at
http://www.Dozenpoker.com, to see which site is a Top and which is Flop.
16. Poker Royale | March 3rd, 2010 at 12:48 pm
I can completely understand how people can become frustrated with loosing and think the stats are impossible, but like the credible author has stated, sh*t happens, I’ve had horrible strings of looses but I’ve also had increadible hot streaks, that’s how gambling goes. If you don’t like it don’t play. simple.
17. Jim | May 29th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
Anyone with a lick of scientific understanding knows that the claim “until empirical evidence showing…” can be applied both ways.
For me it is an open question. Without enquiry and empirical evidence and statistics backed up by thousands of hand histories, the claim that there is no cheating is as unsubstantiated as the claim it is.
As for the argument of “why would they bother” again it can be turned on its head and asked why wouldn’t they bother if they believed they could get away with it?
I am not making a claim one way or the other. All I am saying is both claims are speculation.
18. Rakeback Kingdom | August 14th, 2010 at 5:57 pm
i can most definitely relate to the horrible bad beats that sometimes seem to go on endlessly, especially in tournaments. But i have also noted streaks of cracking big hands with lessor ones by myself, however it sometimes doesnt add up in my favor but thats life. its all about struggling to overcome the odds, and developing a high level of skill that negates the variance we all see all too much in online poker, of course a good rakeback deal can help to soften the impact of these bad beats considerably. so in cunclusion rakeback is very very helpful, and speaking of rakeback why not stop by rakebackkingdom.com and check out our UB and other rakeback deals.
19. gambit1983 | September 1st, 2010 at 11:09 pm
when the poker application is being served to the client(YOU), it is
practically impossible to modify the assembly of code
served to the client, especially in the middle of a poker game.
the poker software and card randomizer is written prior to the release of
the poker client. it undergoes a testing trial period
and is then finally tested by a third party company before its release
there are 1000’s of poker tables running in the world right now
there isn’t some monkey that the poker company hires hiding away behind
a computer at the poker sites headquarters
screwing with your hands for whatever reason you can come up with
you got drawn out on/took a bad beat/ or some n00b is running hot.
DEAL WITH IT AND SHUT UP
20. Poker Rakeback | September 26th, 2010 at 10:59 pm
I think poker is a game of skill. Fate and chance are also part of the game. It is imperative to minimize the luck and take full advantage of the skill portion to be a champion. Online Poker is best if you are multi-tabling to financial freedom. You will have a lower rake, you will not be expected to tip and you can get poker rakeback.
21. gary | January 13th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
bs bs bs every hand that has a potentail to be big in other words for one player to tilt the brd will come to save the day.what i mean is if u call against it then you are a donk.Right?? notice all the pairs and striaghts that come when a player could double up.they dont want good players to get a bankroll .that means they can get away from hands.furthermore a good player will fold to the board therby allowing more hands to raked. a bunch of nonsense to think its fair.its all about keeping u there and trading players money back in forth so that in the long run the rake for the site is the winner.house never loses. gaaurnetee that in ring games if a player gets over a certain percentage something trips the rng .thats why they never allow auduting of the programs.yes i have bad beat somebody yes it has happened to me thats poker but watch the ring games and see the boards they are never clean.yes someone will bluff those boards but to call aginst it and lose that only promotes denialbility on the sites part. all lies lies n more lies gl trying to circumvent the rake.
22. 2tight | January 30th, 2011 at 4:58 am
Please…anyone who does not realize online poker is a joke is merely lying to themselves. First of all, anytime you cannot actually SEE the cards being dealt, NOBODY can say it’s legit. Online poker is the equivalent of playing poker over the phone. Someone you don’t know, in a place you can’t seem to find with Google Earth, is telling you your hand and what the board is showing. What? You think because you can see the cards by video that it’s real? ROFLMAO. I photoshopped myself into a sex scene with Pam Anderson…(more than once).
I want to vomit with the endless stream of excuses people make in order to lie to themselves about online poker. Here are the 2 most commonly used:
1) “You see more hands so it seems like more bad beats”. Here a novel concept from the past…GET a PEN and some PAPER and track every hand you play or watch being played. I did this over one month’s play.
The all in good wins less than 10% regardless of the drawing odds.
Runner Runner winner is a less than a 1 in 52 chance of hitting. During my tracking it hit at over 40%
Over 50% of online hand winners were determined by the river…regardless of drawing odds.
90% of river cards made the trailing hand the winner.
2) What does the site benefit by rigging it.
If you don’t get this one you must never own a business or you have a job in government.
I have played poker for over 25 years. About 10% of players out there truly possess the skill set needed to be regularly successful in poker. This leaves 90% of all poker players lacking the tools needed to win. If you own a poker site do you want 10% of your customers happy? or 90%? Since there are more bad players than good these poker sites have to manipulate the programs to favor weaker play. I players win according to their skill set most internet players would stop playing. If these sites lose 90% of their players because they can’t win then how do they stay in business?
Online sites only make money if the bad play wins consistently…period.
Play online if you like but don’t ever dream it’s fair or reflects your skill…because it’s not.
23. BSonlinepoker | May 2nd, 2011 at 1:19 am
I am done with online poker it is rigged, It is bad when you are all in and you can call the outcome 80% of the time before the river hits the board.
I am sick of getting knocked out by the table chip leaders calling a 6X bb out of position with crap like Q3o, 72s, 34o or A6o, they will call you down to the river with A rag thinking their A is golden and nailing their flush and straights or 2 pair on the river all the time or one outing you.
Variance my A$$ I played 10 tourneys this weekend all being knocked out the same way, 5 at FTP and 5 on PS. I have QQ, KK, AA or AKs and or AQs. I am in position and it’s been checked to me so I raise 4-6x bb sure enough chip leader calls with rages in early position. Most of the time I hit trips or top 2 pairs on the flop but they always hit flushes or straights with 2 runners or one out ya on the river to knock me out.
Here is an example, I have AhAc and I am BB, the table chip leader under the gun has Qd5h, check is to me I bet 6x bb chip leader calls, flop Kh,5D,7D I raise it 4000 close to ¾ of the pot after it was checked to me he calls the other 2 fold. Turn Ad I push all in with 7000, the chip leader calls with a pair 5 and now a flush draw. I type in real quick d on the river GG. Sure enough 6d on the river. I watched the table 7 more hands chip leader pulled that crap 5 more times to knock out 5 more players..
Variance BS 10 times in a row that is not variance. I can go back in my hand histories and look at the tourneys and cash games that end this way it is almost 60% of the time. That is not Variance my live play is not even close to that bad, sure in 4 hrs play I may get 2 bad beats and in 1 month maybe knocked out of a ring or cash game 3 times due to someone making a bad call, but not with the consistency I get online.
I am done with online poker time to build my live bankroll up since I build it up at about at a rate of 20 – 35% or $10/hr - $16/hr on average for ring games that I play at the casino. I place in the money in tourneys 60% of the time with a +ROI of round 15% not great but better than placing 20% of the time in the money online and have a –ROI. There should not be that much of a difference between live play and online play since my game play does not change.
It is simple online is rigged to induce action and come tourneys to eliminate enough to keep a good number of people re-entering tourneys or cash games. Sick of it and I am done with online poker.
24. BSonlinepoker | May 2nd, 2011 at 1:28 am
Oh ya forgot to mention the amount of times I see AA, KK, JJ or QQ all in one pot and everyone one to be all in only to have the guy with 33 or 22 or 72 when the pot (chip leader or the guy that the BB forced all in) .. I think in 1 year playing at the casino and home games I have seen that 3 times. Whereas I looked back in my hand history and have seen it 7 times in 1 month at FT and 5 times at PS..
25. fredflinstone | September 21st, 2011 at 4:51 pm
Yeah, absolute bullshit, the best thing that could happen for Poker now would be a permanent worldwide online ban, shut this bullshit down !!!
Its served its purpose, got millions of fish hooked, now lets cut out the middle man and force these guys to find a real game or start one, whatever, just get their cash on a real world table, real games are where its at, online poker is the biggest load of bullshit ever and anybody who doesn’t know that is either blind, stupid or a fucking fish.
yabbadabbadoo..
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